I'm Paul Hunter and this is the current
podcast.
This Sunday, Germans head to the polls
and the far-right Alternative for
Germany Party or AfD is surging in the
eastern state of Saxony-Anhalt. If they
win, it'll mark the first time a
far-right party has held state power in
Germany since the Nazis. And the outcome
of this regional election could trigger
a political upheaval in the country.
CBC's Jessica Singer has been on the
ground in Saxony-Anhalt following the
campaign and speaking with voters. She's
in the state capital, Magdeburg. Hi
Jessica.
>> Hi.
>> So, tell us about this region,
Saxony-Anhalt. What what's going on
right now?
>> So, Saxony-Anhalt is an eastern German
state and it used to be a part of East
Germany before the Berlin Wall came
down. It's one of the country's smallest
states with around 2 million people and
a lot of rural areas, but no matter
where you are in this state, whether
it's a small town or a bigger city,
things here feel intensely divided.
>> Okay, so for people who don't know, what
is the AfD?
>> Yeah, so the AfD began in 2013 as an
anti-European Union party mainly focused
on the financial crisis, but it began
shifting its focus to immigration and
national identity in 2015 when hundreds
of thousands of refugees came to the
country from places such as Syria. And
what used to be more of a a fringe party
is now an incredibly popular political
movement throughout the country. So, the
party leads national opinion polls at
28% and of course, as we can see here in
Saxony-Anhalt, the party is performing
very well in numerous states, especially
in Germany's east, but I I think it's
important to note that the AfD is
designated as right-wing extremist by
the domestic intelligence service in
Saxony-Anhalt, and it has that same
designation in numerous other states.
Um, a lot of this has to do with
language the party uses that's been
found to violate Germany's constitution.
This idea they put forward about how
there are two types of Germans, people
with German origins, quote-unquote, and
people who have migrated, and that even
includes people with citizenship or
German passport. Um, it's also important
to mention that members of the party
have come under fire for using Nazi
slogans, and some have ties to former
neo-Nazi or ethno-nationalist groups.
I've been to to numerous AfD events, and
sometimes there are thousands of people
cheering and waving German flags. There
was even an event
where people showed up with over a
thousand motorcycles, which have become
a cultural symbol for the party, and
they came to ride through
uh the mountains with Ulrich Sigmund.
He's the party's lead candidate in
Saxony-Anhalt, and people were standing
on either sides of the road cheering uh
as the bikes drove and zoomed past uh in
the small town that is typically very
quiet. Um, and when I was there I met
17-year-old Luca Stemmler, and even
though he can't vote yet, he was still
there with his bike showing his support
especially for Sigmund.
>> He is speak from his heart of our
hearts. We all think the same as him.
Yeah, we find him also cool. The Insta
posts he make or Twitter posts, it's
very it's very cool. That what he say
and that for what he stands, it's like
an idol. Yeah, he's an idol for me.
>> So, he's
he's 17 years old. That's a teenage boy.
I mean, who who are their supporters?
>> So, experts have told me that the
average AfD voter is more likely to be a
young man than a young woman. And I've
also been told statistically that voters
do have a lower educational background,
but they are gaining support across the
board, across gender and age groups, but
I do have to say that when I'm there it
it's clear that the events skew male.
>> the local party leader, Ulrich Siegmund.
I mean, what do we know about him?
>> He's 35 years old from a small town in
Saxony-Anhalt. He used to be a salesman,
and he has become a household name here.
He has over 800,000 followers on TikTok.
And supporters really feel like the
party, and especially Siegmund, are this
beacon of hope for them.
Uh I was at another event for the AfD.
It was a family festival for supporters
in the rural town of Querfurt. They were
giving away free beer and sausages and
AfD balloons to kids. And something that
stuck out to me was I watched people
line up. Uh they were there sometimes
for hours, even in the rain, to pose for
a picture or get Siegmund to sign a
t-shirt with his face plastered on the
front.
At this rally, he made sure to make this
point.
>> So, Paul, there is him saying, "Here, no
one is a right-wing extremist. Here,
everyone is extremely in their right."
Here's how one AfD supporter sees the
party.
>> I know there's been some people in the
AfD who've had some political views who
are questionable, definitely. Uh but I
don't feel at all that any of the party
leaders of the party now are still of
the far right. It's not extremist and I
don't think that they should be
classed as definitely dangerously far
right. I don't think that's the right
statement.
>> So, I think what he said there really
speaks to the growing normalization of
the party.
>> Like what exactly does the party want to
do?
>> The AfD wants to introduce something
called remigration, which is a
controversial term often understood to
mean the mass deportation of people who
immigrated to a country. And in
Saxony-Anhalt, the AfD promises to
significantly ramp up deportations,
impose immigration bans on countries it
deems problematic, establish hundreds of
detention centers for deportees, and
even create separate classrooms for
refugee children.
>> Remigration, deportation, I mean, how
are immigrants reacting to this?
>> I I went on a walk the other day and
there was a massive anti-racism protest
here in Magdeburg, the capital city. I
met Akim Ola Soniolu. He immigrated to
Germany from Nigeria 6 years ago and
he's had many experiences with racism in
the city, but he really wants to stay
positive because this is the place where
he's built a home.
>> Yeah, sometimes you get home and you
cry. But when I'm shedding the tears, I
I'm also thinking, should I let them
win?
Or I make myself happy. They don't They
are not in my shoes. They don't know
what it is
to be a foreigner. So, I know what it
is. I'm the one feeling it. So,
I want to be happy.
>> So, I would just say that some party
members have come under fire for
downplaying Nazi crimes and downplaying
the Holocaust. What about What members
of Germany's Jewish community? How are
they feeling?
>> Yeah, just to touch on what you
mentioned there. One prominent AFD
member, Björn Höcke, told supporters
that Germans were the only people in the
world who planted a memorial of shame in
the heart of their capital, referencing
the Holocaust monument in Berlin. And
Paul Felix Klein, the Federal Government
Commissioner for Jewish Life and the
fight against anti-Semitism, has
criticized the AFD for promoting
anti-Semitic rhetoric, conspiracy
theories, and downplaying the Holocaust.
I I spoke with Max Privorozki, who's a
Jewish community leader in Halle. Their
synagogue was attacked by a neo-Nazi in
2019. And he does actually understand
why people want to celebrate Germany and
the country's national pride, and he
doesn't think this generation should
feel like they're held responsible for
crimes committed during the Second World
War. But, he says parties like the AFD
will use these very complicated emotions
for its own needs.
>> It's erection
against
years of pressure. Children who came
after 1945,
they have nothing with this. They are
not responsible for it. 80 years after
the war, I think it's time to change
this
It's a pity, but this change
come with
such parties like AFD.
>> So, in other words, he thinks the AFD is
the wrong response to those who might
say Germany has a right to move on from
the atrocities of the Holocaust.
>> Yeah, well, Max Privorozki certainly
isn't voting for the AFD. He told me a
lot of that also has to do with the fact
that he came to Germany from the former
Soviet Union. And the connections he
believes that the AfD has to Russia
really worry him.
>> AfD is
hand of Russia in Germany.
We have to live with this situation.
We will see of if they
obtain enough
to organize own government. I don't know
it can happen. It must not happen.
>> Max feels that these ties to Russia are
dangerous and attempts to undermine
democracy in Germany or any country for
that matter, he worries would lead to
direct discrimination against minorities
including the Jewish community.
>> And so what else does the party want to
have on its political agenda?
>> Well, individual states have power over
a lot of areas including policing,
culture, education, and AfD hopes to
introduce sweeping changes across the
board. Some of the noteworthy goals
include normalizing relations with
Russia as we heard Max's concerns about
that, changing history lessons in school
to focus more on what the party says are
the positive aspects of Germany's past
and less on the negatives. Also teaching
kids that a healthy family is a father,
mother, and children. Uh even
incentivizing
of quote-unquote German origin to have
as many kids as possible and also
banning pride flags in schools.
>> the question, what are people in the
LGBTQ community saying about this?
>> I met with a group of people who
recently started a queer collective in
the small city of Dessau and they're
frightened to be themselves. Max
Edingrosskopf is one of the members of
that queer group in Dessau.
>> And me and my partner wish for a kid,
but we often talk about it and and
for us it's it's not possible because we
are afraid that this kid will suffer
because we are gay. We will not accept
that our kid get bullied or get
keep the way from us just because some
government think that's their choice to
do that. Yeah, we we wish for a kid, but
we will not have one because we won't
get a child to to suffer because of us.
>> I also spoke with a local politician
named Hans-Thomas Tillschneider, and
he's often described as the brain behind
a lot of the AfD's cultural policies.
And he talked at length to reporters
about how there's this rainbow agenda
that's being used to undermine
traditional family values. When I asked
him who's behind this rainbow lobby, he
couldn't tell me, but he really
romanticized tradition, reassured people
or tried to at least who who have doubts
or fears about the party, and pointed to
US President Donald Trump as a source of
inspiration.
>> He's trying the same in the US
what we are trying here. He wants to
make America great again is is his
famous
slogan. And I would I would say make
Saxony-Anhalt great again. We will make
Germany great again. We will rebuild our
wealth, our freedom, our liberty.
Rejoice, please. Don't uh be afraid.
>> And so what is it about Saxony-Anhalt? I
mean, why has the AfD become so popular
in that particular part of Germany?
>> So there is a lingering divide between
the country's east and west. Um
inequality and unemployment remains
rampant in east Germany when after the
Berlin Wall came down, even though
citizens there were promised all of
these gained freedoms and opportunities
by reunifying with the West. Statistics
show actually that Saxony-Anhalt in
particular has the oldest population and
one of the highest unemployment rates in
the country. The AfD started campaigning
or I guess inserting itself in these
rural areas that major mainstream
political parties were neglecting and
then capitalized on the sentiment that
there are these elites in capital cities
that serve a globalist agenda. And
German Chancellor Friedrich Merz and his
center-right party is also facing
widespread unpopularity right now. So, a
lot of experts say people are losing
faith in established political parties
and then look elsewhere for a change.
>> what about the rest of the country? Does
the AfD have the same amount of traction
elsewhere?
>> Support is definitely strongest in the
East, but there's a large civil society
movement here in Saxony-Anhalt that's
trying to fight the rise of the AfD. I
One of the rallies I went to, the
motorcycle rally, there were
counter-protesters.
I approached a family who told me that
they were here uh to fight for German
democracy.
>> And and what if the AfD wins in
Saxony-Anhalt? I mean, what does that
mean for the rest of the country?
>> There is this concept called the
firewall in Germany, which is an
agreement among the major political
parties to not collaborate or form
government with any extremist parties,
including the AfD. That's a post-war
strategy. When it it is meant to
safeguard German democracy and liberal
values, but if the AfD secures enough of
the votes in Saxony-Anhalt, experts
wonder if this symbolic firewall could
crumble. Could this mean the AfD could
start collaborating with other parties
or form governments in other states?
Experts also worry the win will give
them more leverage nationally. If the
party holds state power for the first
time, it will sit in the Bundesrat,
which is the second federal legislative
chamber representing the country's 16
states. It could try to undermine
attempts to pass legislation there, but
it's important to remember that experts
say Germany has a robust constitution
that will likely prevent the AfD from
bringing in some of these sweeping
changes that it's proposing.
Ultimately though, the party wants to
run the country. And experts say it does
want to enact policies that go against
Germany's constitution or even
potentially change the rules of the
country's democracy. And winning this
state election is a big step in
normalizing the party as a legitimate
political force.
>> Thank you, Jessica.
>> Thanks for having me.
>> That's the CBC's Jessica Singer in
Magdeburg,
Germany.
You've been listening to the current
podcast. I'm Paul Hunter.